.22 s410 carbine low on power

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Jammy13
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:00 pm
Location: Northumberland

Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:46 pm

Joe,
mine is a 2002 version, possibly one of the first, and is pre anti tamper which I believe yours is. It has a firing pot, spring and valve just like the s410f. I think the hammer and spring are the same also. It's been a while since I had mine in bits so can't remember.

I've hunted out the original manual that contains part numbers.


Firing pot S360(unlikely you will need one)

Firing valve s370

Valve spring s306

Hammer spring s331

If you need and other part numbers let me know.

Keith

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joewilliams97
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:34 pm

Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:55 pm

Jammy13 wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:46 pm
Joe,
mine is a 2002 version, possibly one of the first, and is pre anti tamper which I believe yours is. It has a firing pot, spring and valve just like the s410f. I think the hammer and spring are the same also. It's been a while since I had mine in bits so can't remember.

I've hunted out the original manual that contains part numbers.


Firing pot S360(unlikely you will need one)

Firing valve s370

Valve spring s306

Hammer spring s331

If you need and other part numbers let me know.

Keith
cheers Keith, yeah mines anti tamper I've had it apart a few times nice gun to work on. I'll be ordering a new hammer spring and a new valve spring do you think it's worth getting a new firing valve because mine looked alright when I had it in pieces? I think I'll end up ordering the 2 springs and then playing with the firing pot and adjusting it to get the power back up. unfortunately it's quite a bit of hand pumping to keep testing.

Cheers, Joe
Air Arms S410 .22
Hawke airmax 6x24x50
webly accupell 14.33

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Jammy13
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:00 pm
Location: Northumberland

Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:09 pm

Joe,
Julian does firing valves for £10 according to his price list. If you are ordering from him and can afford a valve I would go for it. If you order directly from this site you will get some discount, don't know how much.

If the valve hasn't been changed since new it won't have a flat face now so can interfere with the transfer of air depending on how bad the face is.

Once you get the rifle the way you want it I don't think you will have to do anything to it for many years. It's worth changing the bits that wear now.

I use Autosol metal polish on the hammer rail. After polishing it I use kitchen roll to clean off any polish. The roll is used till it is spotless, leaving polish on the rail is not a good idea. Do not lubricate the rail.

Keith

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joewilliams97
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Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 3:34 pm

Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:38 am

hi guys update time;

took gun apart and firing valve looked alright so didn't order a new one. ordered new springs and changed them. I noticed the new firing spring was a little shorter than the old one so was wondering if someone had stretched the old one or something? it looked a little bent up. polished hammer rail and firing valve, reset firing pot from 58mm back to 57mm I rebuilt the gun this morning and ran it through the chrono and 104 mps or 341 fps this is 3.7 ftlbs. fairly stumped on what to do next other than keep tweaking the pot.
Air Arms S410 .22
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Roger5
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Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:15 am

Has the barrel been taken out also breech seal carrier? Looking from under breech block is the transfer port fully open?

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Jammy13
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:00 pm
Location: Northumberland

Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:52 pm

Joe,
I'm sure its not the pot and even if the firing valve was in poor condition you would do better than that.

Take the barrel out and make sure the brass is still attached to it. Probably 2 grub screws on the top and a small one underneath. If its not, clean off the adhesive( like Loctite) and inside the brass. I use blue Loctite very sparingly to fix brass onto barrel and wipe off excess.. Allow to dry before refitting into the action. Line up the transfer ports and tighten the grub screws. Be sure to carefully fit the transfer port O ring.

I'm not sure if you polished the firing valve shaft. Do that if it's not done. The shaft should move smoothly in the valve body, no resistance.

I assume a polish of the hammer shaft resulted in a very smooth movement?

Are you sure you are charging the cylinder up to the correct pressure before testing? 150bar should be more than ample. Don't use the guns gauge to check this.

Is your Chrono working correctly?

Keith

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joewilliams97
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Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:34 pm

Roger5 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:15 am
Has the barrel been taken out also breech seal carrier? Looking from under breech block is the transfer port fully open?
I've just taken the barrel out to see if I can see anything unusual, the transfer port was slightly off to one side creating a slight bit of restriction but I wouldn't have thought that would be enough to create the problems
Air Arms S410 .22
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joewilliams97
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Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:22 pm

I've removed the barrel cleaner everything out and replaced the seal and it's back up to 450fps, the breech is bang on centred now. is the pot the next place to go to gain another 100fps ish?
Air Arms S410 .22
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joewilliams97
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Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:23 pm

Jammy13 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:52 pm
Joe,
I'm sure its not the pot and even if the firing valve was in poor condition you would do better than that.

Take the barrel out and make sure the brass is still attached to it. Probably 2 grub screws on the top and a small one underneath. If its not, clean off the adhesive( like Loctite) and inside the brass. I use blue Loctite very sparingly to fix brass onto barrel and wipe off excess.. Allow to dry before refitting into the action. Line up the transfer ports and tighten the grub screws. Be sure to carefully fit the transfer port O ring.

I'm not sure if you polished the firing valve shaft. Do that if it's not done. The shaft should move smoothly in the valve body, no resistance.

I assume a polish of the hammer shaft resulted in a very smooth movement?

Are you sure you are charging the cylinder up to the correct pressure before testing? 150bar should be more than ample. Don't use the guns gauge to check this.

Is your Chrono working correctly?

Keith
sorry I didn't reply Keith I must've missed it, yeah I've polished everything that moves now and have been testing everything at 150bar as that's centre ish of my power curve. the brass was un attached when removing the barrel. I cleaned this up and put it all back together (i hadn't seen your post so was unaware it needed loctiting. the firing valve I did polish and tried to clean the inside but struggled. I would say it moves alright though certainly not freely. the hammer shaft moves perfectly. as far as I'm aware the chrono is working well although I cannot check as I do not have another and I am not close to a range.

really appreciate the help!
Air Arms S410 .22
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webly accupell 14.33

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Jammy13
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:00 pm
Location: Northumberland

Re: .22 s410 carbine low on power

Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:36 pm

joewilliams97 wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:23 pm
Jammy13 wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:52 pm
Joe,
I'm sure its not the pot and even if the firing valve was in poor condition you would do better than that.

Take the barrel out and make sure the brass is still attached to it. Probably 2 grub screws on the top and a small one underneath. If its not, clean off the adhesive( like Loctite) and inside the brass. I use blue Loctite very sparingly to fix brass onto barrel and wipe off excess.. Allow to dry before refitting into the action. Line up the transfer ports and tighten the grub screws. Be sure to carefully fit the transfer port O ring.

I'm not sure if you polished the firing valve shaft. Do that if it's not done. The shaft should move smoothly in the valve body, no resistance.

I assume a polish of the hammer shaft resulted in a very smooth movement?

Are you sure you are charging the cylinder up to the correct pressure before testing? 150bar should be more than ample. Don't use the guns gauge to check this.

Is your Chrono working correctly?

Keith
sorry I didn't reply Keith I must've missed it, yeah I've polished everything that moves now and have been testing everything at 150bar as that's centre ish of my power curve. the brass was un attached when removing the barrel. I cleaned this up and put it all back together (i hadn't seen your post so was unaware it needed loctiting. the firing valve I did polish and tried to clean the inside but struggled. I would say it moves alright though certainly not freely. the hammer shaft moves perfectly. as far as I'm aware the chrono is working well although I cannot check as I do not have another and I am not close to a range.

really appreciate the help!
Joe,
The firing valve must move very freely. It must drop in to the valve body without any appreciable friction. If not you will have to change it.

Check the firing valve black material to see if it is still fixed properly to the stainless shaft. I had one a while ago that was moving.

I guess you removed the barrel and brass holder again to Loctite them together?

Did you look down the inside of the barrel when it was out of the action? The barrel is perfectly straight?

Put a piece of tissue paper or a cigarette paper over the action so it hangs each side of the transfer port and fire a shot. If air is escaping you will notice the paper move.

Is the transfer port O ring good? If it has been squashed a few times it may not be sealing properly.

You are getting approx. 6.4ft/lbs at this time. You won't make the required 5ft/lbs by extending the length of the brass firing pot, me thinks.

Does the firing pot move sideways when it is tightened into the valve body and its grub screw is tightened?

Keith

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