I am a small dealer and I can confirm that the mark up on new guns is very little, If you buy in bulk you can get a better price but then you have to be sure of selling or you are stuck with a large lump of capital funds tied up you can do nothing with
Business taxes, Rates, Insurance, advertising, security Plus all of the other cost of running a business have to come out of the profit you make on sales. The UK has some of the highest business running costs in the EU, so Yes you will be able to get stuff cheaper in Europe, but who are you going to go to with a warranty claim, most of the EU does not have the buyer protection legislation of the UK. so have a problem and it is you who will rip yourself off, you have no recompense from the sellar, and a UK dealer has no obligation to conduct repairs under warranty, and will charge the going rate for spares and labour
The gun industry in the UK is better protected by legislation than others, I also run a diving business in the past few years I have seen most of the local dive shops close, because people were buying cheaper from the internet or abroad. Those sellars probably don't have the knowledge or the time to help with problems and most likely don't speak the same language. I have lost count of the times customers have come in with equipment I am a dealer for, and get very upset when I tell them there is no warranty as they bought abroad, and why should I fix their equipment for nothing when I didn't even get the chance to sell them it in the first place. However if they had bought from me they would get the continued service they paid for.
If you want a retail gun industry in the UK you need to use it and support it, if not it will go the way of the diving, sking, cycling and other retailers, there are very few small ones left, who can give that indepth service the large outlets or internet cannot.
I always try to give the best advice and service I can, and the loyalty I get from returning customers proves they are happy to pay for the service. I cannot compete with some of the big retail outlets, one of which is 25 minutes drive from me, and sells at a discount, however who do you think they get onto for advice with a problem, or send guns to for repair as they cannot provide that level of service themselves.
As for the insinuation that UK dealers are oiks who want to rip people off, I will take that comment with the disdain it deserves. UK dealers are licesensed by the police and require a totally clean record one conviction under the Trades Description Act could be enough for the police to revoke a dealer licence, and the loss of their business
And remember the old adage, You only get what you pay for, It will be cheap for a reason, and as with most things cheap at first, expensive in the long run for whatever reason
Buying from the E.U.
Re: Buying from the E.U.
Hi to every one,
I don't think we can condemn UK dealers and it does not really matter if they make 10% or 40% - they still need to pay rent, business rates in UK prices so they need to make more to cover the costs of running their business.
It seems to be more of a personal choice where you buy - one may like lower price with risk of no real warranty cover as posting the gun back and forth for repair can eat up the initial price difference or pay more and have someone to talk to, get advice, service etc.
BTW recently I wanted to buy a second hand s200 but it was miles away so the seller suggested sending to my local RFD who asked for £25 handling charge - is that reasonable - what you think?
R
I don't think we can condemn UK dealers and it does not really matter if they make 10% or 40% - they still need to pay rent, business rates in UK prices so they need to make more to cover the costs of running their business.
It seems to be more of a personal choice where you buy - one may like lower price with risk of no real warranty cover as posting the gun back and forth for repair can eat up the initial price difference or pay more and have someone to talk to, get advice, service etc.
BTW recently I wanted to buy a second hand s200 but it was miles away so the seller suggested sending to my local RFD who asked for £25 handling charge - is that reasonable - what you think?
R
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Blackbaronfish
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Re: Buying from the E.U.
If you want a retail gun industry in the UK you need to use it and support it, if not it will go the way of the diving, sking, cycling and other retailers, there are very few small ones left, who can give that indepth service the large outlets or internet cannot.
I always try to give the best advice and service I can, and the loyalty I get from returning customers proves they are happy to pay for the service. I cannot compete with some of the big retail outlets, one of which is 25 minutes drive from me, and sells at a discount, however who do you think they get onto for advice with a problem, or send guns to for repair as they cannot provide that level of service themselves.
As for the insinuation that UK dealers are oiks who want to rip people off, I will take that comment with the disdain it deserves. UK dealers are licesensed by the police and require a totally clean record one conviction under the Trades Description Act could be enough for the police to revoke a dealer licence, and the loss of their business
And remember the old adage, You only get what you pay for, It will be cheap for a reason, and as with most things cheap at first, expensive in the long run for whatever reason[/quote]
Totally agree they need are support. Find a gun shop that gives good service and I would be willing to pay a little extra
BBF
I always try to give the best advice and service I can, and the loyalty I get from returning customers proves they are happy to pay for the service. I cannot compete with some of the big retail outlets, one of which is 25 minutes drive from me, and sells at a discount, however who do you think they get onto for advice with a problem, or send guns to for repair as they cannot provide that level of service themselves.
As for the insinuation that UK dealers are oiks who want to rip people off, I will take that comment with the disdain it deserves. UK dealers are licesensed by the police and require a totally clean record one conviction under the Trades Description Act could be enough for the police to revoke a dealer licence, and the loss of their business
And remember the old adage, You only get what you pay for, It will be cheap for a reason, and as with most things cheap at first, expensive in the long run for whatever reason[/quote]
Totally agree they need are support. Find a gun shop that gives good service and I would be willing to pay a little extra
BBF
Did I mention that I'm the only one to have attended EVERY meet since we started
Re: Buying from the E.U.
Hi Gaschef,
I did not specify which particular "oik "was ripping me off but rest assured one of them is. How possibly can anyone justify a price differential of £400 on a £2000 rifle (£2000 to £1600). The manufacturer makes a rifle for a price. That price is uniform, or should be, wherever it's sold. If the rifle "gains" cost in a country then unfortunately it's not rocket science that people will go elsewhere. It's a pretty price to pay for a Warranty(£400) you may not need. One manufacturer even supplies a series of video stripdowns on their website that you can follow.
Remember the cars that were bought abroad and the dealers that were forced to support Warranty claims.
If the U.K. gun industry wants a future then it's up to itself to get sorted out and give it's customers a fairer deal. No-one owes you a living. If you don't meet the market requirement you will lose, like it or not. So far the record of the U.K. airgun industry is abysmal and continues to get worse. There are many sections of industry that for one reason or another now no longer exist in the U.K. the main reason being competition from overseas. Why does the airgun industry deserve our support when it doesn't do us any favours.
I am not blaming the dealers but the entire industry. Unfortunately it's the dealer who takes your money so perhaps they should have an interest in why they're taking so much of it if they are not getting their share of it.
ATB
Ray.
I did not specify which particular "oik "was ripping me off but rest assured one of them is. How possibly can anyone justify a price differential of £400 on a £2000 rifle (£2000 to £1600). The manufacturer makes a rifle for a price. That price is uniform, or should be, wherever it's sold. If the rifle "gains" cost in a country then unfortunately it's not rocket science that people will go elsewhere. It's a pretty price to pay for a Warranty(£400) you may not need. One manufacturer even supplies a series of video stripdowns on their website that you can follow.
Remember the cars that were bought abroad and the dealers that were forced to support Warranty claims.
If the U.K. gun industry wants a future then it's up to itself to get sorted out and give it's customers a fairer deal. No-one owes you a living. If you don't meet the market requirement you will lose, like it or not. So far the record of the U.K. airgun industry is abysmal and continues to get worse. There are many sections of industry that for one reason or another now no longer exist in the U.K. the main reason being competition from overseas. Why does the airgun industry deserve our support when it doesn't do us any favours.
I am not blaming the dealers but the entire industry. Unfortunately it's the dealer who takes your money so perhaps they should have an interest in why they're taking so much of it if they are not getting their share of it.
ATB
Ray.
Re: Buying from the E.U.
Judging by the house my local RFD lives in would suggest he's getting plenty of support. Granted, he's probably worked very hard for it over the years so good luck to him.
But I did a quick google search on EU gun prices and found that I could purchase a brand new Hw100 for £200 cheaper than here in the UK.
As Ray said, £200 is a lot of money for a warranty that may never be needed and if a repair of some sort is needed, then I think £200 would be more than enough to get it sorted by the many gun guru's that exist up and down the land.
I'm not against any business making a profit after all, that's what they're in business for, but as long as it's a fair profit.
But I did a quick google search on EU gun prices and found that I could purchase a brand new Hw100 for £200 cheaper than here in the UK.
As Ray said, £200 is a lot of money for a warranty that may never be needed and if a repair of some sort is needed, then I think £200 would be more than enough to get it sorted by the many gun guru's that exist up and down the land.
I'm not against any business making a profit after all, that's what they're in business for, but as long as it's a fair profit.
Re: Buying from the E.U.
Another example.
S200 Hunter (fitted with a longer air cylinder) £255. U.K. standard S200 £390.
Perhaps it would be better if U.K. Dealers bought from E.U. Dealers and got themselves a bigger mark up.
With self Warranty, worst case scenario would be replace the rifle at £255. But you get to keep the original for spares. As spares it would probably more than cover the purchase price.
ATB
Ray.
S200 Hunter (fitted with a longer air cylinder) £255. U.K. standard S200 £390.
Perhaps it would be better if U.K. Dealers bought from E.U. Dealers and got themselves a bigger mark up.
With self Warranty, worst case scenario would be replace the rifle at £255. But you get to keep the original for spares. As spares it would probably more than cover the purchase price.
ATB
Ray.
Re: Buying from the E.U.
raygun wrote:Another example.
S200 Hunter (fitted with a longer air cylinder) £255. U.K. standard S200 £390.
Perhaps it would be better if U.K. Dealers bought from E.U. Dealers and got themselves a bigger mark up.
With self Warranty, worst case scenario would be replace the rifle at £255. But you get to keep the original for spares. As spares it would probably more than cover the purchase price.
ATB
Ray.
i guess i better start taking the website down now then Ray , why would anyone want to buy a gun from me when they can buy one from abroad £135 cheaper ???
have you found a supplier of spares to replace me as well ......
Re: Buying from the E.U.
Some interesting comments, Personally I would love to make 400 on a sale, the reality is much much less
I do not know what trade price dealers in the EU pay, but they must be getting a far better deal than I get. I do know from the diving industry that trade price on that equipment in the EU was 30% cheaper, but as an authorised UK dealer I can only buy from the UK distributor. As for warranty repairs I would have to get authorisation from the UK distributor before carrying out a repair or they would not pay, and I would end up footing the bill.
As for RFD transfers at 25 pounds , when you look at the time and paperwork involved we don't make any money out of that, it just a service that is provided to try to gain customers
So let me ask you a question How much would you consider a fair profit to be on a 2000 pound rifle. Then how many of those do you think you could sell a week? Then halve the figure you come up with, that's roughly what you can make a week if you are lucky. Now multiply that figure by 44 ( the number of weeks in a year you might sell that amount of rifles, now divide it by 52 the actual weeks in the year, and that's your weekly wage perhaps. Pellets, Targets, Oil, Bits and pieces might make you a few quid, but remember that stock has had to be paid for.
No the airgun industry does not deserve your support, but when the last of those small dealers has gone bust, who are you going to turn to.
Luckily airguns are only a small part of what I do, as if I had to rely on new airgun or any new gun sales I would go very hungry FACT
A few years ago there was a TV documentary called Treasure Island. It detailed what foreign manufacturers thought of and called the UK, as they could mark up prices of goods coming here and know that the stuff would sell and there was no legislation or willingness by governments to try to stamp the practice out, the more an item costs to import into the UK the more money the revenue collects.
THe only thing I can suggest is that if you are so good at sniffing out a bargain set yourself up as an RFD and join the club, then you will know what you are really talking about
That's my Rant over TTFN
I do not know what trade price dealers in the EU pay, but they must be getting a far better deal than I get. I do know from the diving industry that trade price on that equipment in the EU was 30% cheaper, but as an authorised UK dealer I can only buy from the UK distributor. As for warranty repairs I would have to get authorisation from the UK distributor before carrying out a repair or they would not pay, and I would end up footing the bill.
As for RFD transfers at 25 pounds , when you look at the time and paperwork involved we don't make any money out of that, it just a service that is provided to try to gain customers
So let me ask you a question How much would you consider a fair profit to be on a 2000 pound rifle. Then how many of those do you think you could sell a week? Then halve the figure you come up with, that's roughly what you can make a week if you are lucky. Now multiply that figure by 44 ( the number of weeks in a year you might sell that amount of rifles, now divide it by 52 the actual weeks in the year, and that's your weekly wage perhaps. Pellets, Targets, Oil, Bits and pieces might make you a few quid, but remember that stock has had to be paid for.
No the airgun industry does not deserve your support, but when the last of those small dealers has gone bust, who are you going to turn to.
Luckily airguns are only a small part of what I do, as if I had to rely on new airgun or any new gun sales I would go very hungry FACT
A few years ago there was a TV documentary called Treasure Island. It detailed what foreign manufacturers thought of and called the UK, as they could mark up prices of goods coming here and know that the stuff would sell and there was no legislation or willingness by governments to try to stamp the practice out, the more an item costs to import into the UK the more money the revenue collects.
THe only thing I can suggest is that if you are so good at sniffing out a bargain set yourself up as an RFD and join the club, then you will know what you are really talking about
That's my Rant over TTFN
Re: Buying from the E.U.
Hi Julian,
I am making comment on the airgun industry as a whole. There is no doubt that things are starting to change. Perhaps that's because we, the customers have been treated as cash cows and lied to for far too long. There is competition in the business and because of that the "Business" will have to learn to adapt or lose. That is not of my making.
If you are only getting a 10% mark up then you have to ask yourself who is it that's ripping you off if other dealers can sell at a price well below what you are buying in for. Perhaps the GTA can ask AMTA what is going on ?
We the customers do not set the prices, or mark ups, the industry does. What the customer has a right to do is spend his money where he gets best value. That's the market place.
The U.K. had many industries that failed to take account of foreign competition. They are all now "former" industries.
If you look at the utter tosh that the U.K. airgun industry has put out and said over the years perhaps it's getting what it deserves.
ATB
Ray.
I am making comment on the airgun industry as a whole. There is no doubt that things are starting to change. Perhaps that's because we, the customers have been treated as cash cows and lied to for far too long. There is competition in the business and because of that the "Business" will have to learn to adapt or lose. That is not of my making.
If you are only getting a 10% mark up then you have to ask yourself who is it that's ripping you off if other dealers can sell at a price well below what you are buying in for. Perhaps the GTA can ask AMTA what is going on ?
We the customers do not set the prices, or mark ups, the industry does. What the customer has a right to do is spend his money where he gets best value. That's the market place.
The U.K. had many industries that failed to take account of foreign competition. They are all now "former" industries.
If you look at the utter tosh that the U.K. airgun industry has put out and said over the years perhaps it's getting what it deserves.
ATB
Ray.
Re: Buying from the E.U.
gaschef wrote:THe only thing I can suggest is that if you are so good at sniffing out a bargain set yourself up as an RFD and join the club, then you will know what you are really talking about
That's my Rant over TTFN
If I really wanted to set myself up as a Dealer then I would be sure to do it "Off shore" so I could take advantage of the better "Buying in" rates and also have the ability to post the rifles out direct to my customer's home.
As for knowing what I'm talking about there is nothing I've said that cannot be checked out. You have said that the U.K. has been ripped off, or should I say U.K. customers have been ripped off. Why shouldn't people spend their cash where they get the value.
As for the £400 profit, it's actually more than that as it's the E.U. dealers profit plus the £400. It's that bad that some people are actually buying pellets from outside the U.K. because they can save money.
Time the airgun industry woke up.
ATB
Ray.
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