S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

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Archer50
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:40 am

I agree with everything Tonyc has said about possible issues - an excellent explanation by the way - but if that pattern continued over a few more fills, like Pelletcaster, I would be questioning whether the regulator was functioning at all. It is a matter of interpretation, but it looks mighty like an unregulated curve to me and I think I would want AA to look st it before I did anything that might damage my warranty.

Alan

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GWE
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:32 pm

Alan,

Thanks for the confirmation about process. Believe me there is not one tool touching either Bobs or my own XS during its warranty period. Can you imagine perhaps opening the gun to e.g. check or to degrease the hammer, (just an example Tony!) then because the shot strings were not tightening up or worsening, sending it in and being told by AA: “Dear sir,, We did find the regulator to be defective but because the rifle has apparently been diddled with I’m afraid your warranty has been voided, if you would like us to proceed with repairs the costs are as follow: (at this junction in the communique some outrageous list of materials and shipping costs are itemized and you realize you might as well just go out and buy a new Crown or Daystate.).

No Alan, if this little beauty has to be opened up by anyone it will be a “Board Certified Member of the Royal Air Arms Ultimate Sporter Mechanics” and not my Uncle John who loves to take items new out of box and take them apart just to see what makes them “tick”.

Best,
George

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Archer50
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:21 pm

Best of luck, George and by the way, your Uncle John sounds like a man after my own heart :D

Alan

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tonyc
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:21 pm

George,

I agree entirely about not tampering while under warranty - as said my Weihrauch went back 3 times but only after gathering sufficient reliable evidence of a continuing problem with no explicable external influences. My S400 also went back twice but AA did say some issues they would get fixed by an authorized dealer service.

Sorry for the bum steer.... hope it goes well.

Tony

PS. I still think there is some regulation there. Bearing in mind there is no pot, I can't believe AA have got 60 shots from 220 bar, and that flat a profile, with the reg not functioning at all.

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Bob_O
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:38 pm

Hello Everyone!

This is my air rifle that George has posted about.

I have since shot over 1,000 pellets through the rifle since buying it brand new. The ES has not improved since my last shot string earlier today.
I shoot pest birds at farms on a weekly basis. Despite the poor regulator performance, I have not been any less effective at shots on pigeons from 35 yds to 105 yds. Additionally, the gun is accurate at 50 and 100 yds on the range.

I have not contacted my distributor (Pyramyd Air) about this as I don't want to be without a second rifle for however long their turn-around time is for warranty work. If an ES of 40 is the worst it ever gets, I may just put up with it....I haven't decided. Maybe I'll contact PA and ask them what their turn-around time is before saying I'll just live with it.

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GWE
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:53 am

Thanks again Tony and all who have continued to contribute and support. Archer, he drove my Aunt to distraction (mildly put) when he took apart her new $1000 sewing machine to see how the bobbins fed the stitch, it never worked very well after that even though he swore he put it back together "exactly" as he "remembered" taking it apart... ;) George
Last edited by GWE on Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tonyc
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:07 pm

Bob, I'd suggest an email to Air Arms with a couple of profiles attached. Better still to make a phone call and ask for some technical advice then send the data or profile to your tech contact. I did this with my S400 and they were very helpful. They may have seen the exact same issue before. At least you will have logged there is a problem within the warranty period, which may allow you to have it addressed after the warranty expires if that becomes necessary.

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GWE
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:28 am

tonyc wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:07 pm
Bob, I'd suggest an email to Air Arms with a couple of profiles attached. Better still to make a phone call and ask for some technical advice then send the data or profile to your tech contact. I did this with my S400 and they were very helpful. They may have seen the exact same issue before. At least you will have logged there is a problem within the warranty period, which may allow you to have it addressed after the warranty expires if that becomes necessary.
Morning Tony,

AA finally got wind of the "comments"and got one of their engineers in touch wth Bob....Lord have mercy I would hope they got wind of it...I practically wrote Her Majesty trying to get someone to respond to the issue.

As I write this tonight Bob is testing the rifle as per the AA engineer's request...Specifically a shot string beginning with a full 250 Bar fill on down to 150Bar. Bobs is using the same JSB 15.89 pellets as were previously used. In fact I believe Bob said they were from the same tin as before. AA did not specify any power setting.

Interestingly enough the XS manual said the refills should occur at 110 to 115 Bar. There was no mention whatsoever about 150 Bar being the recommended re-fill pressureThats number first came to light as the appropriate re-fill level by either (forgive my memory) the AIR Arms Engineer or even by Claire herself in a published screen shot of a phone text conversation between herself and a contact over at Air Gun Nation...Now why would that bit of information not be in the manual if it were that critical or important? ..excuse me I digress.

I did send Sheila Cooper, Exports Manager for AA, the two charts from Bob's previous 60 shot tests beginning at 220 Bar at two different power level settings. I've heard nothing back, and I almost don't expect to as the issues are of a technical nature not one of sales and logistics.

Significantly more raw data was published in Bob's thread "AA S510 XS Ultimate Sporter 22 – Final Chrono tests" https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/aa-s ... ono-tests/.

Bob's first results were published in "AA S510 XS – Chrono tests" , https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/aa-s ... er-chrono/

Rather than me attempt to regurgitate the results and rather lengthy commentary I recommend to any interested party to take a moment and wander over to those two thread links on the AGN website and check them out...

George

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Bob_O
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:21 am

Morning everyone!

I have been exchanging emails with Alan from Air Arms. Just last night, I conducted the test he asked for and submitted the results. I also answered questions he had about my testing. He will get back with me after he and his team look over the data. In the mean time we are in a wet weather pattern so there will be no shooting for the next couple of days unless it's over the chronograph. That said, I won't be doing anymore
testing unless it's at the request of Alan and/or Air Arms.

Thanks everyone!

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tonyc
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Re: S510 Ultimate Sporter XS Chronograph Chart

Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:27 pm

Hi Bob, George,

Thanks for the links and the latest update. Please let us know how this pans out.

Reading the other threads I seem to be in the minority thinking this XS is regulated. I'll give you some more reasons and look forward to being proved wrong. All the unregged curves I've seen reach a peak in the second half of the cycle, so the curve down is faster than the curve up. The function of the pot on unregulated AA rifles is to restrict the availability of air at the firing valve as the cylinder pressure drops. The effect of this is to move the peak to a higher pressure and flatten the bell curve, but still the curve looks nothing like yours. I've had the misfortune to have the pot fall off my S400, which gave me the opportunity to chrono a full cycle fully unrestricted and unregulated. The starting ME was much the same but ME at peak increased by about 5%; the peak occurred at similar shot number but the air ran out sooner (confirming the peak is later in the cycle); shot count 190-100 bar down 15%. So I'm struggling to see how a missing or completely non-functioning regulator can produce your curve. But I have seen a similar curve from my HW110 (and other crazy curves), with the regulator functioning normally but a combination of other faults. Hope to learn something when AA come back with their analysis.

Good luck.

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